Deck 02 My hunch is that Deck 02 Grimaud B. Presumably, they would have begun putting on the copyright starting a some point in time in either or possibly a subsequent year; so they probably wouldn't have printed cards after that point in time without the copyright indication. Compare U. Games, which didn't start putting on the copyright indication on the Rider-Waite cards until around Deck 04 An interesting thing about Deck 04 English-French bilingual titles is that I've seen at least tarot books published by francophones that use cards from this deck; one book even blanks out the English titles.
This may suggest that, for a time, Grimaud didn't put out Marteau decks with French-only card titles. Coredil, Which particular distribution of Deck 02 do you have? Grimaud on first page, John Waddingdon Ltd. I'm sure there's a version with French-only instructions, as the box with LWB still has extra room in it, but such a version must be much more rare.
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What a wonderful summary, coredil!! I didn't even realize there were so many I checked mine out I have deck I put the deck into a photo album and had a hard time finding it today I thought it was still in the original packaging, but not so. Now that I see the others, I do see what is cut off because of the dual-language titling. Rusty Neon, unfortunately deck 02 came without LWB.
Also it says on both sides: 78 cartes avec livret explicatif. But according to what I have seen elsewhere for example with some RWS copy cards and box must not always match together. I also agree with you when you say this deck is possibly pre But it is a long time between and Has your deck the cardback with the frames? About the pictures, I already said this in another thread: when you consider how precise the interpretation of Paul Marteau is in his book where he gives to almost every little detail in the picture a meaning it is quite strange that one could take so much freedom to change the pictures.
Best regards. As you averted to before, the biggest difference is the 4 of Coins. The Grimaud deck and the Marteau book both refer to the fleur de lys in the centre of the 4 of Coins card. The Conver pattern has the fleur de lys in the 4 of Coins. But somewhere along the way, in the Grimaud deck, the fleur de lys got changed to a tulip. It makes one wonder whether such a change just for copyrighting purposes; otherwise, it doesn't make much sense to change it. No, my cardback has no frames. By the way, the cardback is in blue and white colours but is of a different geometric pattern, with ovals as a design element in the repeating pattern.
Coredil - This is an awesome resource! Is this your Deck 01? Very interesting though the site looks strange to me I would first say that it really look like my deck Same pictures with the frame narrowing the pictures. Same background color. It is for me also nice to finally see how could a box for this deck look like.
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BTW this box with this symbol remind me of the "green box" Rusty Neon mentioned. But one would have to know if it is maybe a edition of this deck. Unfortunately there are not much informations on the site. On all TdM from Marteau I have, the 2 of cups have this quite large red space in the bottom with no writing. As you probably know, the Marteau deck is a re-drawing of the Conver. I have attached a scan of the 2 of cups from the edition of the Conver by Camoin this edition has been printed from original woodblocks.
On the bottom is a kind of blazon and as you can see it does not really match with the style of the drawings. It could be the reason why Marteau let this place empty but Sorry for my bad english , Marteaus text is quite heavy in french. Well, I am interested in Marteau more from the collection point of view and as I said before this red and empty place is to me a graphic solution but this is my very humble and personal point of view : Best regards.
The blazon is the shield of the French monarchy, which would have been appropriate in Conver's day since cardmakers were licensed by the monarchy. Books from 16thth century have a similar thing, usually a page at the beginning or end with a formulaic license from the King. Marteau's first edition has the fleur-de-lys shield on the Four of Deniers, but he has removed the whole heraldry from the Two of Cups. Perhaps he thought it was irrelevant because out of date, and no King had commissioned him.
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The deck seems to be the edition. It also seems as if it would have the same cardback not sure because a description can be quite subjective The copyright is the same as on deck 01 and on the same cards. The owner believes that the box is original, he has no LWB. I am glad now to know a little bit more on the deck. It would seem as if it is not very different from deck 01 beside of the Tulip instead of Lys and dice instead of red coins. But still nobody seems to know when this deck appeared.
Maybe with the first printing of Marteaus book 00a. So it could be or something between and Would he have changed the text later on to reflect the Grimaud Marteau deck colours? The colours of the cards of the Camoin Conver deck are often similar but not the same as the Grimaud Marteau deck. For example, some reds in the deck are rendered by Marteau as blue or yellow; some blues in the deck are rendered by Marteau as yellow or red, etc. Is this scan of the page of Marteaus book a fake? I have no clue. By the way, I have a copy of Marteau's book, too. So Coredil, let me confirm one thing: please check the date on the last page not the reverse of the front page of your "00a" copy.
Is it really a printing? Considering your informations and the scans and the informations I got from Surnateum, it seems as if the s deck and deck 01 are very identical except the Lys, the dice and the stamp.
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To me is one important thing about these decks this unique thick cardstock with the beige background without any plastic feeling. I wonder how long Grimaud produced on this cardstock. Do you have a box similar to the Surnateum scan? I dont have the Dusserre reproduction, but as you mention it I suppose this is not the same cardback as deck 01?
Somewhere it increases the confusion : Do you mean with "attached" that the pictures are printed on separate paper and then glued on the pages of the book as I describe for 00a? Yes I confirm. I attach a scan of the information that are on the very last page of the book. Hi coredil: I'm glad you like my post. Unfortunately not. Mine is "swirls and dots" pattern. The "basket-weave" pattern of your "01" deck is just the same as Conver deck.
I saw it in "Schweizer Spielkarten 2". And the deck which Mr Ronald Decker owns seems to have the same back design. The expression "basket-weave" was the one Mr Decker himself used. Do you mean with "attached" that the pictures are printed on separate paper and then glued on the pages of the book as I describe for 00a?
Pretty thin paper. And thank you for the image of the inscription. It is 2 yellow dice not 2 red circles that you can see on the table. If so, that gives me a good tip about Marteau deck history Isn't it strange? Why on earth are Conver pictures on your edition? Does the page 9 of your book looks like the picture on Flornoys site? Now I would really like to know what is your conclusion about this chaos : Also I would be interested if it allows you to date deck 01 and deck With the deck these are now 3 decks who are pre : Best regards.
Thank you very much for the information.
There is a large auction coming up and I have been doing research, your input has been very helpful. Yes, very starange:confused: Maybe due to the copyright matter? Quite similar. I'm not sure about it So, the copyright of Marteau TdM must have been an accompaniment. I'll post my assumption about the timeline when I have time:.
A question for anyone who owns the Dusserre edition of the Grimaud Thanks -- Lee. Thanks -- Lee Mine's white. As of today, I am the proud owner of my very own "Deck The card stock is super thick. This deck is almost twice the thickness of a regular deck.
You wouldn't want to drop this one on your toe. The cards do have a good protective coating, but it's not excessive, and the feel is more like paper than plastic, albeit very stiff paper. It's not beige, so compared with Deck 01, it looks white. The rest of the colors are very different mainly hue and saturation from Deck Set against the off-white background, they simply look magnificent.
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I would recommend this deck to anyone who is looking for a Marseille and is lucky enough to run across one. Some of the flaps are missing from the box, so it is conceivable it was on one of those. It's worth checking out too. Rusty - there are several posts about the Dusserre reproduction. I searched the thread and found seven.